Bryan Daniel:
From Dallas, Texas, welcome Inside the ICE House Podcast. I'll be your host today. I'm Bryan Daniel, president of NYSE Texas. I'm joined today by Horatio Lonsdale-Hands. He's the co-founder and CEO of Buda Juice, a company here in Texas. Horatio, welcome. Thanks for coming on with us today. Thank
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
You very much, Brian. And wow, what surroundings?
Bryan Daniel:
Well, we wanted a piece of historic Texas and we found it here at the Longhorn Ballroom here in Dallas, a music venue that's just packed with history. And Texas has a lot of cool history and I think we're on the verge of what looks like a brand new chapter in Texas this time in the business community.
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
It's amazing. When I moved here in 1988, there was the S&L crisis, the oil crisis, restaurants were going dark. I mean, it was a tough time. And yet look at it now. It's exploding. I think there were 2.7 million people living in the metroplex, and I think there's now what, over eight?
Bryan Daniel:
That's right. Yeah.
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
Eight and a half, something like that. I mean, this is the place everyone wants to come.
Bryan Daniel:
And when you think about that, when you think about the Texas business, we would say Texas business climate. When you think about where we are now and you think about where it's come since '88, what are your thoughts about that? If we zoom out to that 30,000 foot view, if we're going to describe that to somebody who's not here, who's not been a part of it, how do we describe that to them?
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
Well, the environment, it's like the old West. I mean, I've done business on the East Coast and the West Coast. There's nothing like Texas. It's all done still on the gut and a handshake. It's really incredible. The people here are amazing. Now we're listed on dual listing on the York Stock Exchange in Texas. I'm a Texan.
Bryan Daniel:
Yeah, that's right. That's right.
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
And also, I've been broke twice in my life. Once was a young man in Paris. Looking back at it, that wasn't too bad. And the second time was in 1989 in dark Texas. It was very tough because it was the summer and it was very, very, very hot. And I moved here from California and yet the people made it okay. And I had a lot of friends, pioneers back then of very successful business people who also went broke. And I feel like I'm part of the club now.
Bryan Daniel:
You mentioned 1989. Now that's just not that long ago. And yet a few years have gone by since '89.
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
Right.
Bryan Daniel:
But I don't think a lot of people who don't have this experience steeped in Texas probably appreciate economically how dire it was in Texas in the middle to late '80s. And if you think about just what the state has done from both an economic-
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
Yeah.
Bryan Daniel:
... and business perspective in the 30 or so years that we're talking about.
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
Yeah. It's incredible.
Bryan Daniel:
Some have called it the Texas Miracle, but I don't think it was a miracle. I think it was just a lot of hard work on the part of a lot of people.
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
I think if you know the uptown area, I believe there was the Crescent, which Caroline Hunt, the family developed, and then the Rolex building. That was it. And it was really rough back then. But yeah, the pioneer of the Texans and right now I think the rest of the world is realizing how extraordinary this state is. Of course, JR put it on the map. I knew Larry Hagman back then in the '80s when he was filming and he really was like a true Texan. And that's based on real people. It's amazing.
Bryan Daniel:
Well, and I hear from friends in Europe that they still see reruns-
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
They do.
Bryan Daniel:
... of Dallas in a lot of Europe. And I find that absolutely amazing.
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
It's incredible. Wherever I go. I was in Japan recently for spring break and they talk about it there. And in Europe they say, "Ah, JR, JR." And they come here and they go and see Southfork and it's like this tiny little house with a small swimming pool. They think, "Ey, ey, ey."
Bryan Daniel:
That's somewhat of a wedding venue these days.
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
Exactly.
Bryan Daniel:
I mean, people are using it for that.
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
No, I mean, this state has exploded. It's very pro-business. My only fear is all these Californians and New Yorkers and everyone moving here. I hope they don't change the environment because look what happened in California. I mean, they have what, a $40 billion deficit and Texas has a $40 billion surplus. It's just the way you run it.
Bryan Daniel:
And I think some of that's-
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
And there's no tax here.
Bryan Daniel:
A great point. I think some of it's a little bit of attitude.
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
Yeah.
Bryan Daniel:
I think some of it is Texas perhaps understanding that it can be different from any other state, whether it's California, New York-
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Bryan Daniel:
... Illinois, or North Carolina or Florida for that matter.
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
Yeah. Yeah.
Bryan Daniel:
It's understanding that Texas policymakers, certainly business leaders like yourself-
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
Yeah. Yeah.
Bryan Daniel:
... it sounds to me like we've found what we think is a system. Maybe that's not the right word, but certainly a process that works-
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
Right.
Bryan Daniel:
... and that we really need to try to get the most out of that we can because we don't have to be like another place. We can just be Texas.
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
I think the business leaders, all the successful people in this state, my experience, they all want to pass it on. They all want to help the next generation. So anyone that's successful and made a lot of money, they're willing to invest in ideas. And if they lose the money, well, they write it off and go on to the next one. It's like all these documents where you have 500, 1,000 pages. In Texas, the only reason you have a document is to remember what the deal is, not because you're going to sue someone if it goes south. Here there's the energy, there's the pioneers of Texas. It's really a great environment for anyone to come here and build a business.
Bryan Daniel:
You mentioned that you are listed on NYSE American and you have a dual listing on NYSE Texas headquartered here out of Dallas. And I'm enjoying what you're saying about how business is in Texas. We do the documents to remember the deal.
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
Right.
Bryan Daniel:
It's really about paying it forward and letting the next generation also be successful. But I have to assume that you listing on the public market, specifically NYSE American and NYSE Texas, that's also part of your strategy. I mean, that's saying, "I have a significant Texas footprint. I also have a significant United States and perhaps global footprint." And I think capital markets are important to that.
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
Yeah.
Bryan Daniel:
What was the thinking that went into this idea of we've got this successful company in this very successful place that's Texas and we think that an IPO, a listing there is beneficial to us? How did that thinking happen? And what was the strategy behind that moving forward?
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
The strategy behind going public is we're a private company. We had 10 amazing mainly Texas investors who supported the idea. We had an idea which was basically we put these wonderful products. We have a juice company. We do fresh juices and put them in a little fridge in Plano in a coffee stop. They sold. At West Village, we built our own store. We built like 20 stores, beautiful branding, loyal, wonderful customers, everyone come in. But we were losing so much money. It was crazy. Every three months I have to call my partners and say, "Would you mind putting another million dollars?" And they supported me. It was extraordinary.
And we went on for years. And then we got into HEB. Of course, HEB is a legend in the country, the top grocery store in the world really the way they run their business. And we got on the shelves and I've been told that more people go through HEBs in one month than the entire year in Disney World. So just imagine.
Bryan Daniel:
Oh, wow.
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
And you've seen them open here, right? I mean, gosh.
Bryan Daniel:
As a lifelong Texan, HEB's like our lifeblood.
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
Yeah.
Bryan Daniel:
That's a big deal for somebody who's selling a product.
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
Yeah. And now they're in Dallas-
Bryan Daniel:
Yeah.
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
... and wow. I mean, when they open up, they have police people, lining people. I was like, "Like Disney, you take your turn and wait to get in." And then you see this magnificent selection of fresh produce, which is where we're situated. Anyway, so when we saw that and got in there, it's like, "Well, why are we opening stores?" So we didn't renew any leases, let them run out. And then we got hit COVID, close all our stores. And now we're 100% in other people's real estate. So we're in Walmart, we're in HEB, and Kroger and working on others.
So we started in Texas and we went from losing a lot of money to breaking even to now almost four and a half years of profit, consecutive profit, with cash in the bank and a great vision for the future, which is basically we've created a new category called ultra fresh to put that on the shelves in every grocery store in America. So to stay private kind of keeps you under the radar. So the idea is, as a public company, you're exposed to a lot more people. A lot more people are following you and looking at you. And if they taste the product and they like it, well, then they can look at buying the stock. And if they buy the stock, they can buy the product too.
So the idea was to go public and we had NASDAQ or New York Stock Exchange. I felt that for us, New York Stock Exchange was a little more exclusive, a little harder to get into, but that's kind of where we wanted to be. They treated us very well and really wanted us. So it was a privilege to be on listed. And then New York Stock Exchange is now in Texas and we're in Texas and it seems like a perfect fit. We really want to expose what's going on in the public markets in Texas because this is going to be the new financial capital of the country for sure.
I mean, in 20 years, 30 years from now, this is it. There's unlimited land to grow into, to build. There's a very friendly business environment, very geared towards businessmen and people who want to build a company. So I feel that there's no option. Of course, we have to be listed on New York Stock Exchange. And also not only have you guys been very welcoming to us, but we're a small company now, but one day we're going to be very big. And so you allowed us to get listed on such a magnificent and historical exchange. And in return, we're going to grow and you're going to be proud that you had us on your exchange. And I think that's really important.
Bryan Daniel:
From our perspective, I mean, obviously we understand in the entire NYSE group, how markets work. I mean, the New York Stock Exchange dates back to the 1790s.
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
Right. Yeah.
Bryan Daniel:
We've been doing this a long time. This new presence we have with NYSE Texas. Actually, you kind of gave me a new perspective. I mean, I understand how this works. I understand the needs of our companies. But I think today you've really reinforced this notion that companies go public because they want to grow, they want to have access to capital, they want people to see them, they want to do their things. But also being in a place where you're tied, particularly to a place, in your case, you're a Texas company, NYSE Texas was attractive to you for doing that.
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
Right.
Bryan Daniel:
I wanted to go back though. Something you said was really intriguing to me in talking about Buda Juice, which is I do find it interesting that you were basically retail, my own retail locations, and then really now you're more of a wholesaler. And that, I think, for a lot of people would seem the reverse of what we would typically see. Normally, we see a successful product and then maybe-
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
Right.
Bryan Daniel:
... that ends up at the grocery store.
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
Right.
Bryan Daniel:
Or something along those lines. You kind of tackled that differently. My question really is is that due in part to seems to be kind of a new segment you're pioneering, this idea-
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
Yeah.
Bryan Daniel:
... of fresh juices available. They need to be available for the consumer where the consumer is. I presume that all plays together because you do seem to be pioneering here.
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
It does. Yeah. Well, we started out just as a juice company and evolved to doing... We started out with the shots evolved to all the citrus and now we're doing all these wonderful lemonades, limeades, and now we're getting into dressings as well. So what happens is you visualize the grocery store. Who goes to the grocery store these days to buy loo paper or Kleenex or cleaning liquids or whatever? You buy those on amazon.com and they're delivered to your doorstep.
So you really go to the grocery store to have the sensory to fresh, fresh. It's all about fresh. What am I going to cook? What do I need that's fresh? And so what happens is the consumers want fresh. And if you take all the middle of the store, we're taking all those products that are pasteurized and shelf stable and making them fresh. So we had to name this category because when you go to the store and you see like 100, 200, 300 beverages up there that are juices, lemonades, whatever, most of them are shelf stable. All of them are pasteurized or HPP or UV. In other words, they've extended the shelf life.
Bryan Daniel:
Right.
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
With fresh, there's no extending the shelf life. It's fresh. Short shelf life. That's the badge of honor. So what we've done is we're now situated not up there with all the other juices are. We're situated where the fresh cut fruits are, the fresh cut veggies are. So you have all these wonderful products that the consumer picks up the bottle and says, "Oh, it's one week left. That's fresh." And then once they try it, they'll come back and buy more. Our price point is very attractive. So we have a 12 ounce cherry limeade at Walmart. It sells for $1.47 for a 12 ounce bottle of fresh juice of lemonade.
Bryan Daniel:
Yeah. Yeah.
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
It's amazing and tastes so delicious. The family size, 52 ounce, sells for $5.98 and $5.99 at Kroger. So the price points are very competitive with all those pasteurized juices up there. So now we're evolving into other... What else do consumers want that's fresh in the produce? If you think the whole perimeter of the grocery store is expanding, ready-made meals and all these things, people, they want fresh, but they want convenience as well. So they go to the grocery store and all these wonderful fresh products are starting to sprout out and that's why we named the category ultra fresh.
Now back in the '80s, I co-founded a company called ZuZu, ZuZu Handmade Mexican food. We built 100 restaurants in 17 states, again, based in Dallas, Texas. And that was the 3rd of July 1989 opposite SMU on Hillcrest. We opened our first store. And I remember after becoming a year or two quite successful, everyone would say, "Horatio, I love your fast food." And it bugged the hell out of me because these were fresh, wonderful. Everything was made in store. So I got to come up with a name for this.
So basically, I coined the term between fast food and casual dining and called it fast casual. And that was back in 1995 and I trademarked it and I had wonderful mentors like Norman Brinker and Wally Doolin, all these. And I said, "Could you start using fast casual to kind of name this category, get it going?" And then the articles I did interviews took fast casual. And before you knew it took off and you have all these other people stepped like Chipotle and whatever stepped into this category. And now it's what, a hundred, $200 billion a year category.
So that's the same thing we had to do, I feel, for this ultra fresh category that we're doing. Also, the other very important part, Brian, is consumers want clean. And we've been clean, which means no artificial flavors, no artificial dyes, sugars, all that stuff. It's got to be clean.
Bryan Daniel:
And I think all of us, and we're all consumers, I think we're much more conscious of how clean our food is.
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
Right.
Bryan Daniel:
Where did our food come from?
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
Right.
Bryan Daniel:
What's the origin of this?
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
Right.
Bryan Daniel:
What's the health implications of this?
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
Right.
Bryan Daniel:
Whether that's good or bad.
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
Right, right.
Bryan Daniel:
I mean, I'm not going to tell you I don't enjoy a honey bun every now and again.
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
Right, right.
Bryan Daniel:
That's not healthy.
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
Right, right.
Bryan Daniel:
But you've not created this new category. You've given the customers what they've asked for in the category.
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
That's right. Thanks.
Bryan Daniel:
And you're talking about the product being clean, the ultra fresh designation that you've given it. You do that from Dallas, Texas.
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
We do. We have a plant here in Dallas. It's 20,000 feet. We've now expanded 40,000 feet. We went from lots of people to much fewer people working there because we put a lot of automatization and systems in and developing AI and all these new components that are available today that weren't available 10 years, five years ago. So a very simple way of describing it is about eight years ago, our cost per ounce, labor cost per ounce was just under .10 and it's now a penny.
Bryan Daniel:
Wow.
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
It's over 85% lower because of the efficiencies, because of the volume, because of automatization. And we believe that's going to continue to go down, although other costs may go up. But generally that is unbelievable what's going on in the world today.
Bryan Daniel:
And that's really just your ability to access and harness the technology that becomes available to you.
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
Yeah. Yeah.
Bryan Daniel:
I've met some of your team here in Texas.
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
Right. Yeah.
Bryan Daniel:
I mean, I know you have a great team-
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
Yeah.
Bryan Daniel:
... and I think one of the real balancing acts for successful companies is the ability to balance the technology that can make it cost-effective-
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
Right.
Bryan Daniel:
... the technology that can make it much more consistent for the customer-
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
Right. Right.
Bryan Daniel:
... and then still have the human resources that are necessary to really make this happen.
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Bryan Daniel:
Has Texas been good for you in terms of talent, your ability to find the people that help make this happen?
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
Yes, it has. And I'm just a very small part of everything that's going on. I have extraordinary partners like my co-founder Bernard and of course Bryan Herr, the legend who started and pioneered. He took an apple, sliced it up, put it on the shelves and created a whole category, value added, freshly cut fruits and veggies all over the country. That's him who pioneered that. He's our executive chairman. He's a large shareholder and so incredibly supportive of the vision and helping us grow. But that's Texas.
It's like all these amazing Texas friends who've become friends over the years who support an idea and a vision. I mean, no one knows if it's going to work out. I originally thought the vision was to be a Starbucks of juice, put one on every corner. But no, I think people prefer coffee to juices.
Bryan Daniel:
Yeah.
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
And we evolved from very, very healthy to now you have a choice of very healthy or you can have a lemonade or you can have a limeade or whatever, but they're fresh and they're clean. And clean and fresh are the two ingredients. Very important.
Bryan Daniel:
Yeah. Because you made the point earlier that grocery stores have changed significantly too.
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
Right.
Bryan Daniel:
It's not just about how much of this or that sort of product can I get?
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
Right.
Bryan Daniel:
I want to really have my cake and eat it too, would be the old expression.
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
Yes.
Bryan Daniel:
But I really want to be able to have the convenience of right now-
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
Right.
Bryan Daniel:
... but I want it to taste freshly prepared.
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
Right.
Bryan Daniel:
I want it to be healthy.
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
Yeah, exactly.
Bryan Daniel:
Whatever it is I'm looking for in terms of healthy.
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
Right.
Bryan Daniel:
Your limeade is spectacular and it has a lot of different uses at home, but I think all of us-
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
Yes, it does. Especially in the evening.
Bryan Daniel:
Yeah. It's a family broadcast, but yeah-
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
Yes.
Bryan Daniel:
... you can make a lot of-
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
Yes.
Bryan Daniel:
... different beverages with that. But it's one of those things that I think we do spend more time at home because we can get these fresh and healthy sort of meet us halfway kind of products is the way I would describe them. I don't have to juice the lime-
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
Right.
Bryan Daniel:
... because I can buy a limeade that I know is clean, it's healthy-
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
Right.
Bryan Daniel:
... and it's readily available at my grocery store where I might go. And so many of these grocery stores have, as you said, the prepared meals where all you have to do is pop it in the oven. And this is not a TV dinner like-
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
Right.
Bryan Daniel:
... you or I might think of a TV dinner.
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
Right. Right. Right.
Bryan Daniel:
This is a wonderful meal. And I think customers, all of our consumers, they will give us the clues to their lifestyle needs.
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
Right.
Bryan Daniel:
And it just really sounds like you've put together and built a company here that can quickly respond to those customers' needs. I mean, you're a relatively young company-
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
Right.
Bryan Daniel:
... and you're already thinking about product expansions based on what-
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
Yeah.
Bryan Daniel:
... the customers are asking for.
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
And we're building a plant on the East Coast next year and the one on the West Coast, won't be California, but it'll be servicing the West Coast. It'll be Arizona probably or Nevada. And then we can service the West Coast because when you're fresh, you have a shorter shelf life so you need broader distribution.
Bryan Daniel:
Well, that was where I was hoping we would head is distribution. And you're answering the question ahead of me, which is great, because I think that's the next logical thing. The company wants to grow, needs to grow.
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
Right.
Bryan Daniel:
Customers want the product. Clearly you have a plan in place to move to the areas of the United States where you want to be.
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
Yeah. Yeah, if you think about it, we have what we call Fresh 35 Platform, which we've created, which is from farms. So you go basically to the groves and you pick the fruit off the trees. There's nothing from the earth. Don't pick anything up. Tree certified fruit. When it comes in cold, so it's ship cold, comes in cold into our plant, we will check the temperature. We'll check the bricks and the pH levels, quality of the food, and most of all the temperature, 35 degrees. And then we accept it and it goes into our cooler room where the next day it's juiced. Before we do that, we cull it, make sure we only put the nice fruit in, goes into our proprietary cold wash, 35 degrees, all the way through we extract the juice. So most companies, juice companies, they cold press the juice, which means they squash the juice and you get all the peel and you get the oils from the skin.
Bryan Daniel:
Rind oil. Yeah.
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
We extract the juice.
Bryan Daniel:
Ah.
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
So you only have that beautiful inside. And then we will put it through the cyclone and the finisher, which will take most of the pulp out. You have a very clean tasting juice. All is 35 degrees. Then you go to the finishing line, which you bottle it and you cap it, you label it, and then it goes into another room all at 35 degrees. And then it's stored at 35 degrees until we ship it out. When we ship it out, we will check the temperature of the product and we'll take the temperature of the trailer that it's going into-
Bryan Daniel:
Yeah.
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
... to make sure it's 35 degrees. And when it's delivered to the customer, they will also check it. But if it's under 40 degrees, they'll accept it. So that unbroken cold chain gives you a longer shelf life, gives you all the enzymes, the fresh taste. There's no aftertaste. You have one sip and it's like, "Wow, I love this. It's amazing. I want more."
Bryan Daniel:
Well, and I think for most customers to hear that, it gives them a lot of reassurance in a product they probably really like because it's fresh and it tastes good.
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
And you keep the nutrients too.
Bryan Daniel:
Yeah.
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
So it's fantastic.
Bryan Daniel:
And it's [inaudible 00:26:01]. It's a healthy-
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
Yeah.
Bryan Daniel:
When we think of juice, we want to believe that it's healthy-
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
Right. Right.
Bryan Daniel:
... because we're going to the trouble to do that. If it's also delicious, then that solves-
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
Yeah.
Bryan Daniel:
... another issue for us as well.
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
It is very good.
Bryan Daniel:
But your description of the process, I mean, it doesn't just happen. And I think most consumers probably appreciate knowing that there's a significant amount of science in this. There's a significant amount of technology that makes that happen.
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
Right.
Bryan Daniel:
But at the end of the day, they're buying it because it's delicious and it's healthy.
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
That's the whole point, right? Okay, let's face it. Most people in America want to be healthy, but 70% of the country are, should we say a little bit overweight? They're not healthy. And so most people want to eat what tastes and drink what tastes great. Even though they want to be healthy, they're not really living a healthy lifestyle. And so taste is key because if you have the most healthy juice on the planet and it doesn't taste good, they're not going to drink it. They'll drink one and you say, "Oh, I don't want that again." So you've got to create products that taste great. And it's hard to do that when you pasteurize them. It's much better when you have a fresh product. I mean, that's half the battle. So if it's fresh and it's clean, and it tastes great, then you've got a wonderful product.
Bryan Daniel:
In sort of customer tastes, customer things that they want from the marketplace, do those change really rapidly? I mean, you've got this great product. There's obviously demand.
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
Right.
Bryan Daniel:
People want it. But is this like an ever shifting environment that you're in? Or are you able to take time and be innovative in the space?
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
Yeah. So that's my favorite part is the research and development and what do people really want? So we're working all the time on new products that are going to come out that are different. Now the market, the paradigm has shifted because if you think about it, years ago, you could go to any grocery store in America and they'd have fresh juice. They'd juice it there. And then the advent of, you remember the orange, I think it was Tropicana or whatever, they froze it and you put it in water. Wow, this is so good, right? And then it evolved to, well, let's pasteurize and have a shelf stable. It's so convenient for the stores.
And so consumers went away from grandma's fresh juice to totally institutionalized pasteurization. And now, thank heavens, everyone's looking at fresh again and the market is exploding because people want their children to have fresh and be healthy and themselves and their grandparents. So that paradigm has shifted now. So everyone is running to the store to get all these wonderful fresh products. There's one challenge there. There's not a lot of fresh products like ours because we're the only ones able to scale it right now. Everyone else is doing the, how should I say, the wonderful branding, marketing, promotions, all this stuff, but they're all pasteurized. Fresh is still very hard to find. And so you can find it at Walmart, you can find it at HEB, and you can find it at Kroger. We're growing, but right now that's all we're handling.
Bryan Daniel:
And I think I grew up in the '70s in a citrus growing region here in Texas.
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
Oh, you did? Oh, excellent, right.
Bryan Daniel:
And so fresh squeeze orange juice-
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
Right.
Bryan Daniel:
... or fresh squeeze-
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
Grapefruit.
Bryan Daniel:
... grapefruit juice, my mother did in the kitchen.
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
Yeah. Yeah.
Bryan Daniel:
She had a press like that.
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
Beautiful. Yeah.
Bryan Daniel:
Yeah, I mean, it tastes wonderful. It just literally came off the tree yesterday.
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
Yeah it did, yeah.
Bryan Daniel:
And you're right about frozen concentrated orange juice. And then I remember being a college freshman-
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
Right.
Bryan Daniel:
... and I drank orange juice with almost every meal-
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
Yeah.
Bryan Daniel:
... because the idea of unlimited orange juice in-
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
Right.
Bryan Daniel:
... the dorm cafeteria was just like, this must be healthy. Now, as a much older adult, I realized it was in a bag-
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
Right.
Bryan Daniel:
... in a dispenser in the cafeteria and it was orange flavored beverage.
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
Yeah.
Bryan Daniel:
But it sure tasted good. We've been talking about it a lot here today, but just this ability for you to meet the consumer where they are-
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
Right.
Bryan Daniel:
... give them the product that they're looking for seems like you feel like there's still a lot of horizon beyond that. You spoke very quickly about scaling. I'm going to come back to Texas.
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
Right.
Bryan Daniel:
Is part of your ability to scale to fill this customer demand, this thing that the consumer said they wanted, is part of your ability to scale to that based on something unique about Texas? Is that something that kind of plays into your long-term strategy here?
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
That's a great question, Bryan. So maybe you don't know this, but the most competitive grocery market in the country is in Texas. And the ground zero for that is Dallas Fort Worth. I mean, everyone... HEB is moving in, Kroger's building new stores, Walmart's building new stores, Costco's building new stores. It is exploding. Now, part of that is the population's exploding too and the demand is there. But it is really, really competitive. So we feel that we're first of all in ground zero, but we're also at the tip of the iceberg because there's so much more to go. I mean, it's unlimited here in Texas. It's exploding. But having said that, we've now expanded into other states. We're in nine states right now. We had Texas and then we've gone to Walmart and they put us in eight other states. So we are definitely expanding out of Texas, but this market here is just beginning, just beginning for us.
Bryan Daniel:
So really the growth here, just the general newness of the category-
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
Right.
Bryan Daniel:
... the consumers, competition between the grocery stores, it's like a lot of other things in life. You've got a great idea, a great product. You were able to successfully bring it to market and you're in the exact right place for that to happen.
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
The right time, yes. Finally.
Bryan Daniel:
Well, your story, and you've talked about it today. I mean, I think when you're in school and you're studying business success, we study the wins.
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
Yeah. Right.
Bryan Daniel:
We study the people who have been successful. And I think you require a little bit of perspective to be able to look and say, "Okay, well, the formula seems to be three unsuccessful ventures to get the one thing that's going to work."
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
Right.
Bryan Daniel:
I don't think anything's an overnight success.
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
Yeah.
Bryan Daniel:
Most of us work very hard to get to where we're going.
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
And as an entrepreneur, as you know, I mean, as my wife and my four children will confirm, what happens is the balance of life is really important. You've got to have a perfect business and personal life balance. Well, that's a load of hogwash, right? You've got to work 24/7 until it clicks. And when it clicks, you've got to keep your foot to the pedal and keep going, keep going because when you've got momentum, you got to keep growing. So there is no balance in being an entrepreneur. But you love what you're doing and hopefully the family will support you and love what you're doing. They do in my case. I love it. And I've been doing this, I moved to America in 1981 with Bear Stearns in San Francisco.
And then with another friend of mine from Switzerland, we shared a house together with my three-month-year-old baby. I moved out and my ex-wife didn't want to be married, didn't want to be a mom. So I raised my beautiful daughter, Tiffany. Anyway, so we got a house in Montecito for the weekends and it was like Two Men And A Baby, but there was nothing to do back then. So we started a little champagne club called Nippers in Coast Village Road. Became hugely successful, opened one down on Rodeo Drive in Beverly Hills. And basically we did the Academy Award party for People Time Magazine. We did the Victory Album of the Jacksons. I mean, it was the place to go. Champagne, Caviar. Don't remember the show, The Lifestyle's of the Rich and Famous.
Bryan Daniel:
I remember that. Yeah. Robin Leach.
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
But it was, "Caviar wishes, champagne dreams." That was at our club. They filmed four shows there and that was their tagline and they filmed it all there. So in the '20s, I mean, there were massive amount of publicity there and everything. And I was in my 20s and I thought, "Wow, this is easy." Right? And of course you've become very arrogant and you think you know everything. And then I moved to Dallas and then from a high of California, moved to Dallas and then lost everything in a short-term business I started here and then I had to start again. And it was tough, but it's interesting. As you say, you kind of got to go through that. And I feel that a lot of Texans... Okay, this is different. I feel a lot of Texans have done that and have been stronger and more successful because of that experience. I'm certainly part of that club.
Bryan Daniel:
I might say, as a native Texan, we have such a high degree of tolerance for understanding that you're going to get knocked down a few times.
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
Right.
Bryan Daniel:
You really ought to get back up.
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
Yeah. Yeah.
Bryan Daniel:
And I think we encourage people. Sincerely, I think you would've been an entrepreneur wherever you were. That's just part of who you are. And I think you would try entrepreneurial things, but it does really come across strong to me that you feel like Texas really presents perhaps an advantage to entrepreneurs in terms of, you've mentioned deals here are handshake deals-
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
Right.
Bryan Daniel:
... that the people are good people-
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
Right.
Bryan Daniel:
... and they want to see success. That people can get knocked down and get back up and do that.
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
Right.
Bryan Daniel:
All those things are kind of key to entrepreneurship. And I mean, maybe I've overlooked that Texas might actually be, not just a great environment for publicly listed companies-
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
Right.
Bryan Daniel:
... for exchanges like ours, but it's also really a good place for entrepreneurs to set up shop.
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
There's no better place on the planet. I mean, hands down, Texas is where it's at for being an entrepreneur and starting a business. Because if you have an idea, you could have a dinner or lunch with a friend, he says, "Okay, well, I'll put a couple hundred thousand, see how it goes." And I mean, I've seen this time and time again. I've been here since '88 and I can't tell you the number of amazing friends I have here and how I've seen them support other businesses. And some they made a lot of money, some they've lost the investments, but they move on to the next one. And it's extraordinary.
You don't have that on the East Coast, the West Coast, or certainly don't have it in Europe or Asia. This is really a different environment. And this is the frontier. This the last frontier. In the business world, I feel Texas is where it's at. And not only do you have amazing people here who have the heart and are genuine, there's no attitude here. It doesn't matter who you are. If you want to be successful, this is the place to be.
Bryan Daniel:
If we think about all that you've done, the success of Buda Juice, the success of where that company's going to be able to go, some of that because it's based in Texas, some of that because of the co-founders and the leadership of the company today. The company's growing. Texas has been that good environment for a lot of good things to happen for a lot of businesses. You've described it so eloquently. Let's think about five years from now, let's think about seven years from now. What's the vision for Buda Juice? What's the vision for doing business in Texas? Where do you think this takes us from here?
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
Well, I feel that we will continue to grow. The vision is to have our products on every grocery store in America in this ultra fresh category we created, not be limited just to shots and lemonades and beautiful fresh citrus, but to do dressings, pasta sauces, ready-made meals, soups. There's a whole line of ultra fresh products down the road I feel that fit into the ultra fresh category, which we like to do as much, everything from the center of the grocery store, put into produce and make it fresh. And I think that's what consumers want. It's kind of a gift for all the families out there because they can now enjoy fresh at an affordable price.
So the value component is really important too because fresh is very expensive and yet we've made it affordable. So we've brought the value into the equation, which is really important. Texas itself is exploding and all the companies are moving here. It's a very favorable business environment tax-wise, energy-wise, human capital is amazing. I feel that this is the place to be to grow a business.
Bryan Daniel:
Well, Horatio, it's been a wonderful conversation with you about this. I've so enjoyed getting to know you. Certainly through your dual listing on NYSE Texas, we do get to work on some things, but it's moments like this that are special. I just love this opportunity for people to hear about the exciting things that are going on in Texas, the Texans that are making them happen. And this is a larger conversation nationwide. The success you're having with Buda Juice is exciting for me. Your opportunities to continue to grow your company are very exciting to me and I sincerely appreciate you carving out some time to spend with us here today.
Horatio Lonsdale-Hands:
Well, thank you. And we feel very privileged being on the New York Stock Exchange here in Texas and we'll do everything we can to help support you. And I know you do the same for us. And again, that's very Texas.
Speaker 3:
That's our conversation for this week. Remember to rate, review, and subscribe wherever you listen and follow us on X at ICE House Podcast. From the New York Stock Exchange, we'll talk to you again next week inside the ICE House. Information contained in this podcast was obtained in part from publicly available sources and not independently verified. Neither ICE nor its affiliates make any representations or warranties express or implied as to the accuracy or completeness of the information and do not sponsor, approve, or endorse any of the content herein, all of which is presented solely for informational and educational purposes. Nothing herein constitutes an offer to sell, a solicitation of an offer to buy any security, or a recommendation of any security or trading practice. Some portions of the proceeding conversation may have been edited for the purpose of length or clarity.